GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Discussion related to the Garmin GPSMAP 65 series GPSr
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tommygps
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:34 am

GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by tommygps »

With firmware v. 4.40 some maps become enabled after switching briefly to another profile and returning to the current profile. I use profiles to quickly switch between maps, so basically one profile = one map or just a few complementary maps. This works very well on my etrex 32x but not on my new GPSMAP 65s. It seems to be an older issue as I saw the same behaviour after downgrading to firmware v. 4.00. The additional maps are on a micro SD card. Here is an example sequence:

Step 1
Menu page - Profile Change - Profile 1
Map page - Menu - Setup Map - Select Map
  • Enabled - Worldwide DEM Basemap,NR
  • Enabled - TopoActive Europe 2021.12, North East
  • Enabled - Garmin DEM Map EU 2020.10
  • Enabled - TopoActive Europe 2021.10, South West
  • Disabled - OpenTopoMap Great Britain
  • Disabled - Open TopoMap Great-britain contours
  • Disabled - TOPO Israel v4 Light
Step 2
Menu page - Profile Change - Profile 2
  • Enabled - Worldwide DEM Basemap,NR
  • Disabled - TopoActive Europe 2021.12, North East
  • Enabled - Garmin DEM Map EU 2020.10
  • Disabled - TopoActive Europe 2021.10, South West
  • Disabled - OpenTopoMap Great Britain
  • Disabled - Open TopoMap Great-britain contours
  • Enabled - TOPO Israel v4 Light
Step 3
Menu page - Profile Change - Profile 1
Now some maps which were disabled in this profile are enabled:
  • Enabled - Worldwide DEM Basemap,NR
  • Enabled - TopoActive Europe 2021.12, North East
  • Enabled - Garmin DEM Map EU 2020.10
  • Enabled - TopoActive Europe 2021.10, South West
  • Disabled - OpenTopoMap Great Britain
  • Enabled - Open TopoMap Great-britain contours
  • Enabled - TOPO Israel v4 Light
The more maps, the more havoc this bug causes. For me the whole point of using profiles is to easily switch between maps and this bug is a major nuisance.
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GPSrChive
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by GPSrChive »

There are a number of possibilities to explain this behavior.

Please help us diagnose the issue.

First step, remove all 'additional' maps the device was not pre-loaded with.

Create two new test profiles (Test 1, Test 2) and configure some of the maps enabled for the first profile, and other maps enabled for the second profile.

Retest and report your results.
tommygps
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:34 am

Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by tommygps »

Thank you for your response. I removed the micro SD card which left me with preloaded maps only, and created new test profiles. There was no problem with selections of the 4 preloaded maps.

I then loaded further maps and could recreate the problem. I then switched to using the micro SD card for the extra maps which I was adding one by one and by selection I was eventually able to load quite a few maps without a problem. Most of these were non-OSM based (usually not more than two OSM maps and never more than three).

Most of the time the problem starts when there are at least three OSM maps loaded in different combinations. In such case, I cannot stably disable all the maps in the test profiles (most maps become automatically enabled after reloading the test profile). It is almost as if there was some conflict between the maps, and I tried different OSM maps from different sources.

Examples of problematic OSM maps are in my previous post, and also OSMapa.pl seems to be susceptible to this problem on my GPSMAP 65s.
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GPSrChive
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by GPSrChive »

When you were adding one map at a time, and everything worked OK until you added another, which map was that?
tommygps
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by tommygps »

It was Open TopoMap Great Britain-contours. I swapped it for OSMapaPL and the same thing happened.

At least I have found a combination of maps which seem to work well together:

Worldwide DEM Basemap,NR
TopoActive Europe North East
Garmin DEM MAp EU 2020.10
TopoActive Europe South West
Azja OSM Base (selected tiles loaded from MapSource)
Gory_17_F5X_v2
GPS_50_Bieszczady
Polska OSM Auto
Sciezki_PL
TOPO Israel v4 Light
Topo_PL_100
UMP-pcPL_pe
UMP-szlaki
KMZ and JNX maps

Add any of the below and the test profiles no longer remember which maps were disabled. No maps become disabled, but many disabled maps become enabled after switching profiles.

OpenTopoMap Great Britain
OpenTopoMap Great Britain-contours
OSMapaPL
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GPSrChive
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by GPSrChive »

tommygps wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:26 am It was Open TopoMap Great Britain-contours. I swapped it for OSMapaPL and the same thing happened.

Add any of the below and the test profiles no longer remember which maps were disabled. No maps become disabled, but many disabled maps become enabled after switching profiles.

OpenTopoMap Great Britain
OpenTopoMap Great Britain-contours
OSMapaPL
I have located and downloaded these maps from https://garmin.opentopomap.org/

I have inspected the maps for potential issues and discovered that they do not properly identify themselves internally.

This is due to an error made at the time of map compilation.

This Map ID issue can lead to a multitude of undesirable behaviors on various Garmin devices.

Unfortunately, this is not something for Garmin to correct, but rather the map maker must refine and correct their map compilation process.
tommygps
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by tommygps »

First of all, thank you for your support and for identifying the source of the problem. I am much happier now that I can use most of my favourite maps.

I think I can see the ID problem with OpenTopoMap Great Britain-contours, which indeed points towards the maps, though I did not spot anything obviously wrong with the IDs of the remaining problematic maps. Presumably there are some other problems, or is it something that I would be able to check or correct with GMapTool to prevent this from happening again?

F: PID 1, FID 11392, Asia OSM Base
F: PID 1, FID 2017, Góry_17 v.2 *** Fenix 5X ***
F: PID 1, FID 4816, GPS_50_Bieszczady
F: PID 1, FID 11314, Polska OSM Auto
F: PID 1, FID 13, PL Ścieżki 2014.10
F: PID 1, FID 7051, TOPO Israel v4 Light
F: PID 1, FID 4807, Topo_PL_100 v.0809
F: PID 1, FID 122, UMP pe 01gru21
F: PID 1, FID 124, UMP Szlaki

F: PID 1, FID 53422, OpenTopoMap Great-britain 2021-09-02
F: PID 1, FID 5354, "familyname"
F: PID 5, FID 5, OSMapaPLext-OGONKI
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GPSrChive
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by GPSrChive »

It goes a little deeper than that.

In GMapTool, when you view map details, you will see something similar to the following repeated throughout the IMG file:

"parameters 1 3 17 33"

The '17' in that text sequence identifies the map as a CityNavigator variant.

If you enable 'Experimental Options' in the GMapTool 'Option Tab', then open the 'Write Tab', you will see an option to write the 'TRE parameters (1-4)'.

Edit the (3) to read '23' for 'Custom Map', select 'Write selected', then test the edited IMG file on your GPSr using a microSD card only. This is so that if something goes wrong, you can remove the microSD card and reboot the device.
tommygps
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by tommygps »

Thank you for being so helpful. I tried exactly what you said and OpenTopoMap Great Britain now works as expected. I think I will end testing here and will just enjoy my new GPSMAP 65s.

However, one thing makes me wonder. I noticed that a few other maps also identify themselves as a CityNavigator variant but do not cause problems. Surely there is nothing inherently wrong about being CityNavigator. So I reckon it would probably be a combination of TRE parameters which causes a problem (perhaps in combination with a particular GPS receiver). I am guessing these parameters tell the receiver whether a map is routable or what kind of activities are supported. What is the rule here and how can I predict from the TRE parameters if a map will misbehave?
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GPSrChive
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Re: GPSMAP 65/65s Version 4.40 - Issue with Profiles not remembering Map settings

Unread post by GPSrChive »

Yes, a combination of events that creates the issue, almost always with third party maps involved.

Can be due to a combination of maps on device, maps enabled simultaneously with OE maps, how the maps are compiled, and how the firmware for any given device is written.

The relationship between all these items makes predicting issues almost impossible. Even Garmin has to make corrections so thier own maps are read properly from time to time.
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