Navigating a couse, seems not to be using any turn-by-turn info.

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987
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Navigating a couse, seems not to be using any turn-by-turn info.

Unread post by 987 »

Tested with GPSMAP 66st firmware 9.90.

Hi.
A course is said to be:
- A course combines elements from both tracks and routes to provide the best of both worlds.
- Typically contains all detailed turn-by-turn information needed to route from start to finish without a map.
etc.

With a routeable map enables at first i created a course in the course planner and then tried to use it without a map.
1. Hiking activity type was used.
2. Go to main menu and course planner.
3. + Create course. Select calculate with available Roads & trails.
4. Add the points along the road. When done press done and the unit prepares/calculates the shaping points.


Now to navigation, i turned off the maps to mimic a scenario that the course is share with a device where the same map is not present.

At first i selected FIND -> Courses -> The course -> Direct path -> Go.
In this test the unit more or less guides along the track prepared, there are no turn indicators, but it will alarm for approaching a waypoint (those that were used when planning the course), off course and on course. One has to arrive really close to a waypoint to make it alert, actually if one is off for a bit, the unit will take really long to understand that it should look for the next waypoint on the course/track. Much longer than what it takes for usage of a route. On one occasion i was moving away from some last point and after more than 1.6 km and passing many other points (at which some also alarmed) i had to stop and restart the navigation to get it more onto track.
The unit shows distance to next point but only if one has a data field set up, the guidance text (eg. 500m Turn left onto street A) is not showing.

At second i selected FIND -> Courses -> The course -> Roads & Trails -> Go.
At this time it starts to import shaping points, it a rather slow process but after some time the import is done.
The same track is visible, but if i go to the Active route page, all waypoints along the course are blanked out and the option to review is gone.
Following the course again is just following the track.
There are no alerts (none at all). Not when arriving at any of the points originally set up and not when approaching a turn.
The unit shows distance to next turn/point but only if one has a data field set up, the guidance text (eg. 500m Turn left onto street A) is not showing.


Is there some way i can get turn-by-turn information to work without a map?
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GPSrChive
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Re: Navigating a couse, seems not to be using any turn-by-turn info.

Unread post by GPSrChive »

I do wish you had screen captures to share with that detailed explanation.
987
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Navigating a couse, seems not to be using any turn-by-turn info.

Unread post by 987 »

Hi.
Took me some time before i could reply, but given the low activity i guess not many are using the course function.
I don't know which screenshots would help, the steps are reproducible.

Anyway;
I think that if one anyway has a device such as 66s/st/i/sr or montana 7x0, most often one have maps of the area in question as well.
It would come in handy if it was possible to share a pre-calculated course to a unit which does not have routable maps of the area (handheld or car), or say a watch with course navigation capability, with or without map capability.

If garmin happens to read, i think the following should be change with courses.
Here is how i think courses could be enhanced.

WHEN CREATING A COURSE:
When selecting Course planner and + Create course the question "Create direct path or calculate on available roads and trails?" comes up.
If Direct path is selected. Then the points can be added to the course but no pre-calculation is made (i think this is the current case).
If Road & trails is selected, the unit should immediately ask about the activity (automobile, cycle, hiking, etc.) and then ask for calculation method (minimize time, distance, ascent, etc.). This is crucial as it would tell the unit how to show the course while still preparing it and it will inform the user that now the course will be pre-calculated using the selected activity and routing method.
The user now adds the points and when pressing Done the shaping points and turn directions should be calculated.

The course should now be ready to use without a map and possible to share to another unit via ANT+ or bluetooth. It may be a car unit, other handheld or a watch that can navigate using "do course".


WHEN NAVIGATING A COURSE:
On 66s/st and units with similar capability.
When selecting FIND -> COURSE and selecting the course to navigate, i think the following should happen on the device:

If pre-calculated data (shaping point and turn directions) is available, the unit should inform so and ask:
This course has pre-calculated routing information, do you want to use it? [Yes, No]
If yes is selected, then the unit shall import the shaping points and turn directions and start guiding along the course. The activity and method cannot be changed at this time, as they were set during the creation.

If no is selected, the unit should bring up the same question which is shown as when a route is started. that is it should prompt for Activity and method.
In this case, if the user selects "direct routing" it will be a point to point routing, if anything else is selected, the available maps should be used to try to calculate the course. Here i think it is important to always ask for the activity and method, because it indicates that something is not as usual.

(For routing of a route, the route settings are used and questions only asked if activity and method is set to Prompted).


On watches:
Select navigate -> course -> Do course.
Course should start using the pre-calculated data.
I think this is how it works if a course is created in a course planner on a computer or phone and then synced to the watch.
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GPSrChive
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Re: Navigating a couse, seems not to be using any turn-by-turn info.

Unread post by GPSrChive »

987 wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:36 pm ....
Following the course again is just following the track.
There are no alerts (none at all). Not when arriving at any of the points originally set up and not when approaching a turn.
....
I am curious if when you created the course in question, were notifications set up for any of the course points? Were any of them set to 'Alert on Arrival'?

Can you share the course you were using so we can examine and test with it?
987
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Navigating a couse, seems not to be using any turn-by-turn info.

Unread post by 987 »

GPSrChive wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:58 am I am curious if when you created the course in question, were notifications set up for any of the course points? Were any of them set to 'Alert on Arrival'?
Hi.
Without being 100 % certain, i do think they were ON.
I removed the course soon after the test but i did not change any of the settings for the points while creating it and default is "Alert on arrival" = on.
The alerts worked while navigating Direct path and i used the exact same course when navigating Roads & Trails, so i would really hope the base information stays the same.
It seems that even though the course is pre-calculated from a routable map, it does not include turn instructions and does not want to alert when trying to use Roads & Trails option to follow the pre-calculated data
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GPSrChive
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Re: Navigating a couse, seems not to be using any turn-by-turn info.

Unread post by GPSrChive »

We will have to do some experimenting with this feature, as we do not normally use our GPSr to 'tell us where to go' :?
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