Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Discussion related to the Garmin Montana 7x0 series GPSr
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GPSrChive
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Unread post by GPSrChive »

Yes, a master reset will not delete any maps.

I didn't realize you loaded the third party maps to internal memory.

Instead of actually removing them, you can simply change the file extension from '*.img' to some thing like '*.zip', or even just add another extension after the '*.img' to something like '*.img.skip' and after the next restart those maps will no longer be available in the map setup menu.

Also, after a full reset, all maps are always enabled, including any Custom maps (*.kmz) you may have loaded, so don't forget to remove those also if present.

I will be doing some additional testing with my 750i later today...
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LostAgain
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Unread post by LostAgain »

Yeah ok I'll do that with those 2 maps, thanks, didn't know that little trick either.
No other custom maps or .kmz or anything else added, just my own tracks and waypoints I had added & they're not currently on it.

Should I leave all the default maps enabled next time I test?
It comes default with the Basemap, TopoActive Africa V6 North, TopoActive Africa V6 South and the TopoActive AUS/NZ 2021.10, and also has the setting Automatic Maps enabled.
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Unread post by GPSrChive »

A. I really appreciate your time invested to try and get to the bottom of what is happening here.

B. I would test first perhaps with all default settings (just as you described), then disable all but the Basemap and AU/NZ TopoActive maps because you clearly do not need the TopoActive Africa maps while operating in your location!

C. After testing with only the TA AU/NZ and Basemap enabled, you may want to also try turning off 'Automatic Maps' and test once more.

I am (thus far) unable to reproduce this behavior here in North America, so I am simply trying to isolate the differences between your Montana vs my Montana.

It is correct that the Montana does automatically disable the 3D-Compass when inserted into a powered mount, and must then use sequential GPS position reports to 'calculate' the estimated direction of travel. Poor or erratic GPS performance will cause the behavior you are seeing in this scenario, therefore during one of your next tests you may want to simply reach down and unplug the power supply for the powered mount (do not touch the Montana other than to select 'Stay On') and see if the 3D-Compass coming back online improves the directional stability behavior. You may want to adjust the screen backlight to 'Always On' prior to running this test as it will otherwise turn off shortly after disconnecting the power to the mount.
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LostAgain
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Unread post by LostAgain »

gpsrchive wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:03 pm A. I really appreciate your time invested to try and get to the bottom of what is happening here.
No worries at all, I don't mind.
I'd like to see it fixed and hopefully all the effort we're putting in ensures it will be.
Then I can actually use it for what I bought it for instead of leaving it at home or selling it or throwing it out the window or something :lol:
With it freezing like it does it's just not usable for me at the moment.
Apart from the freezing I do like using it, it's got a pretty smart interface and responds quite fast when doing things or changing settings or whatever.
The night mode backlighting is pretty disappointing, though as with the original one I had, a bit of car window tint will make that bearable, as it's most likely a hardware thing it probably won't be changed or fixed.
gpsrchive wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:03 pmB. I would test first perhaps with all default settings (just as you described), then disable all but the Basemap and AU/NZ TopoActive maps because you clearly do not need the TopoActive Africa maps while operating in your location!
Ok will do.
gpsrchive wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:03 pmC. After testing with only the TA AU/NZ and Basemap enabled, you may want to also try turning off 'Automatic Maps' and test once more.
I will do that as well.
gpsrchive wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:03 pmI am (thus far) unable to reproduce this behavior here in North America, so I am simply trying to isolate the differences between your Montana vs my Montana.
I find it interesting and somewhat irking that I've seen it with 2 separate devices but no one else seems to so far.
Not sure if you caught the post on AdvRider but it has me wondering if there's a difference in firmware between Australian sold devices and those sold elsewhere in other countries and perhaps the firmware for this region has a bug.
I've read that some Garmin devices have different firmware for different locations but I have no idea if the 700's do or don't.
gpsrchive wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:03 pmIt is correct that the Montana does automatically disable the 3D-Compass when inserted into a powered mount, and must then use sequential GPS position reports to 'calculate' the estimated direction of travel. Poor or erratic GPS performance will cause the behavior you are seeing in this scenario, therefore during one of your next tests you may want to simply reach down and unplug the power supply for the powered mount (do not touch the Montana other than to select 'Stay On') and see if the 3D-Compass coming back online improves the directional stability behavior. You may want to adjust the screen backlight to 'Always On' prior to running this test as it will otherwise turn off shortly after disconnecting the power to the mount.
Yep ok, that's now on the list too.
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

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Did some similar testing today, weaving from one side of the road to the other at very slow speeds, and this is the track log that was recorded. The Vehicle icon always pointed in the correct direction, and the map never froze, never spun erratically, and never failed to refresh all or part of the screen.

My Montana was in a Garmin Automotive powered mount connected to a 12v power port the entire time.

Montana 750i OK.png

I only share this to provide you with hope and confirmation that the device can behave properly. We only need to discover why yours behaves as it does.
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

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LostAgain wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:49 pm ... it has me wondering if there's a difference in firmware between Australian sold devices and those sold elsewhere in other countries and perhaps the firmware for this region has a bug. I've read that some Garmin devices have different firmware for different locations but I have no idea if the 700's do or don't.
Please send a copy of the GarminDevice.xml file from your Montana 700\Garmin\ directory to webmaster@gpsrchive.com
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LostAgain
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Unread post by LostAgain »

Something I've also been wondering, perhaps it's something that only affects the basic 700 model, not the 'i' models?
I guess the firmware might be different between the inreach and non inreach models.
No one I know of around my location has a 700 series device I can swap notes with either unfortunately.

This is the exact routine I follow now when testing as it seems to be repeatable every time.
Might be easier to follow than my videos.

Firstly, I get up to about 30 kph for a hundred metres or so in a straight line, then while stopping I turn so that when stopped I'm facing around about 45 degrees or more from the original travel direction, and the map has rotated around to reflect this.
I then stay stopped for a few seconds after the speed display drops back to zero, then I take off slowly again at a slow pace, a bit over idle in a 4WD in low range 1st gear, usually about 3 or 4 kph and maintaining that slow pace.
And that I find makes it consistent, it does it every time.
If I accelerate to over about 7 kph immediately, it starts working as expected immediately, but as you see in the videos if I stay under that pace sometimes it takes several minutes before it starts working as expected.

The distance travelling straight before turning doesn't have to be always about a hundred metres and the speed doesn't always have to be around 30 kph, I just use that for testing purposes as it's always repeatable around that speed and distance.
I've seen it happen after only a few metres, and after several kilometres travel.
I've been travelling slower than 30 kph, pulled up and it's happened.
Also a couple of times travelling at over 100 kph on the highway I've slowed and stopped turning off the highway and noticed it frozen when moving again.

I might save the gpx track file next time I do some testing, perhaps even the NMEA sentences might prove to be useful somehow.


Email sent with the .xml attached.


Another response from Garmin today...
Hi ****** ,

Thank you for contacting Garmin Australasia,

Please reply to this email with the Garmin folder for the device by following the steps via the link Sending a Garmin Folder from a Device to Product Support.......
I explained to Garmin Product Support once again, just like last time, that it is not possible to send an 800+ MB file to Garmin Product Support via email because Garmin Product Support has an email size restriction of 25 MB...sigh...
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

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LostAgain wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:15 am Email sent with the .xml attached.
I have inspected your XML file compared to several other Montana 7x0 XML files and they all have the same software specs and use the same identical firmware.

So, it appears no special SEA (South East Asia) Montana 7x0 at this time....
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LostAgain
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Unread post by LostAgain »

Thanks again, that eliminates the locality possibility.

I sent the Garmin folder to Garmin via email, after some backwards and forwards with regards to the size (about 1 GB with everything they advise to remove, removed) explaining the Voice folder was 975 MB and the reason I could not email it because of their email size limit, they finally requested I send the Garmin folder without the Voice folder, which I did.
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LostAgain
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Re: Montana 700 Map Screen Redraw Issue [Bug 54], Startup Issue, and Small Request

Unread post by LostAgain »

Had a chance to do some more testing today.

The video is a single take, no editing or cutting so it can be seen exactly what I did at what times.
Quality is a bit ordinary on this one, different camera, it only has digital zoom which drops the quality considerably when zoomed in.
Sunlight makes it a bit hard to see but it's still viewable what was happening.

Again had the 610 running beside it for comparison, saved the track from each this time.
The 610 is set to record a track point every 5 seconds, the 700 track recording is whatever the default is after a full reset.
Considerable differences in the track output displays and speeds shown even though they were side by side while testing, separate tracks in the attached .zip.

Pics are from the testing of each device loaded into GPS Track Editor, the 700 is the pale blue track and the 610 is the orange track.

700-track.png

610-track.png


The video:





The mount seems to be the culprit in the video but I'm not convinced it's 100% to blame for the issue though as previous testing while walking around with it nowhere near the mount also showed it freezing.
I think it is more something to do with how the compass has been programmed to work, and what I see with the mount is a side effect of that.

610-700-GPX.zip
=====================================================================

Off topic for this thread but the same issue, the 276CX does pretty much the same rotation freeze thing, and has done since day 1.
I had the chance to refresh my memory as to why I don't just use it for everything recently, and remembered it was this same freezing issue that drove me from it.
With the 276CX it also appears to be something to do with the way the compass has been programmed to work.

Turn the compass on, test exactly as testing the 700 above, after stopping the map jumps around erratically until a speed of about 5 kph is reached, then it starts to work as expected.

Turn the compass off, test with the same steps as the 700 testing, and after stopping for a couple of seconds the map rotation freezes and remains frozen until a speed of around 5 kph is reached, then it works as expected.
Sounds very familiar to me...

In fact the only time I've really seen the 276CX work as expected for low speed work was in I think the first video in this thread where it's sitting beside the 700 & 610 where it appeared to work fine, but using it for low speed work again over the last week or two it unfortunately doesn't work fine, the only one that doesn't seem to have this issue is the 610...
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