GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Discussion related to the Garmin GPSMAP 66i GPSr
simonw500
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:32 pm

GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by simonw500 »

Easily reproducible:

1. Start an activity recording from one of the main mages ([ENTER] twice)
2. After a short period of time, stop an activity recording from one of the main pages [ENTER] twice)
3. A summary of the recorded activity pops up, including the (correct) elapsed time, and the option to save - remember what this elapsed time is
4. Wait a while (counting in your head if you want to be super accurate, or just go grab a coffee) then hit Save
5. Review the activity just saved, either on the device or after it has synced to whatever repository via Garmin Explore/Connect, and you'll see the elapsed time is not what you noted before but instead this time PLUS whatever you counted in your head / how long it took to get your coffee.

You can also see this while recording an activity and pausing/stopping it from the Recording Controls pages, here you will see the elapsed time continuing to tick by even with the recording stopped/paused. Personally I'm in two minds as to the validity of this: on the one hand this is technically correct if you are assuming the activity is PAUSED (eg. it will resume) yet incorrect if finished and just not yet saved - trouble is the device has no way of knowing which is the case and probably the reason why every other device would pause this time display (albeit continuing to accumulate in the background in case the activity recording is resumed). In any event, total elapsed time is the beginning of the activity recording (pressing start the first time) to the end of recording finishing (pressing stop the final time) but definitely nothing to do with how long it then takes to hit save afterwards!
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GPSrChive
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Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by GPSrChive »

Firmware version, please.
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GPSrChive
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Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by GPSrChive »

I have tested this on every GPSr I could get my hands on today (about a dozen), and they all perform the exact same way.

It appears that when you stop an activity recording, the total activity time stops accumulating, but total elapsed time doe snot stop counting as many users will stop for breaks during workouts etc, and then restart them again, perhaps multiple times, and thus the total elapsed time must continue counting until the recording is actually saved.

All saved activities show both the total activity time and total elapsed time separately, and correctly.

All saved tracks simply show the total activity time, and do not appear to care about elapsed time.

As best as I can determine, there is no bug here.
987
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Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by 987 »

Elapsed time is the elapsed time since last reset. Active or not. At least i believe this is correct.
Even if you shut down the device (over night or so) the elapsed time will continue, but the activity time is paused.
If you instead use expedition mode, if i recall correctly activity time is not paused unless one does so manually.
Long ago there was a bug that elapsed time could be incorrect if the unit had been without power and lost the clock, but that has been corrected since some time back (bug 81 on the 66s/st common issues page).
987
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by 987 »

(based on 66st, but i am rather sure 66i works the same).
You can observe that elapsed time does not stop when stopping an activity like this:
MENU - MENU - Recording control. Press Stop. Move right to the info tab. Note that the Elapsed time is counting all the time.

Saved tracks does not contain the elapsed time. Saved activities contain both active time and elapsed time.
simonw500
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Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by simonw500 »

gpsrchive wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:15 am I have tested this on every GPSr I could get my hands on today (about a dozen), and they all perform the exact same way.

It appears that when you stop an activity recording, the total activity time stops accumulating, but total elapsed time doe snot stop counting as many users will stop for breaks during workouts etc, and then restart them again, perhaps multiple times, and thus the total elapsed time must continue counting until the recording is actually saved.

All saved activities show both the total activity time and total elapsed time separately, and correctly.

All saved tracks simply show the total activity time, and do not appear to care about elapsed time.

As best as I can determine, there is no bug here.
Thanks for your efforts looking into this. I tested similarly, using the 6 different Garmins I could find charged - current and past generations - the 66i, a couple of fenix (3 and 5 plus) and a number of Edge and a Forerunner unit. All others recorded the elapsed time as I'd expect bar the 66i.

It's important to note we are talking about (ie. where I'm saying the bug is) the elapsed time saved within an activity recordings summary, indeed the data field is called "Elapsed act. time" and described as "Elapsed activity time"; if we were talking about the trip computer this might be different (understandable either way, depending on how you view things and also the setting "During Activity" of linking trip computer to activity recording). But no we are talking about the elapsed activity time that is saved within the activity recording (.fit file) and then used/displayed by any analytical software as one of the two key time fields: elapsed time (the time elapsed between the start of the activity recording and end of activity recording, including any pauses/breaks etc) and active time (the time during which activity was being recorded only, not including pauses/breaks). This can be further distilled into moving time by looking at the active time and discounting proportions where activity was being recorded but there was no movement.. and so on.

Elapsed time in terms of an activity is just that: the time elapsed from when the recording (activity) first started to when it last stopped, including any pauses/breaks. Any additional time taken to then hit the save button is irrelevant to the elapsed time of the activity, be it a couple of seconds or minutes/hours.

On the other hand elapsed time within the trip computer I get is different, elapsed time since last reset makes sense here.

Just my view - but one I do feel very strongly on! :)
simonw500
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:32 pm

Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by simonw500 »

987 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:33 am Elapsed time is the elapsed time since last reset. Active or not. At least i believe this is correct.
Per my reply above, the data field is called "elapsed act. time" and described as "elapsed activity time", further its this summary value incorrectly being saved within the activity recording file (.fit) that I'm getting upset about :) and obviously this individual file represents the recording of a specific activity without any regard to when the particular GPSr used happened to be last reset.
simonw500
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:32 pm

Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by simonw500 »

My final example to demonstrate my thoughts, then I can sleep easy that I've at least got my thinking across accurately even if there's differing views on its correctness! :)

1. Drive to a trailhead, arrive 10am, reset your 66i, start recording your activity, go for a hike.
2. At 1pm you stop for lunch, you pause your 66i activity recording, then at 1.30pm you unpause your activity recording and continue the hike.
3. Arrive back at trailhead 5pm, stop your activity recording, glance at your activity recording stats (elapsed time: 7 hrs, active time: 6.5 hrs), and drive home.
4. 8pm that evening you go to charge your 66i and realise you haven't saved your hiking activity recording, so you hit save.
5. The next day you pull up the .fit file (either on device or within whatever software you use, possibly you send the file to a friend etc) to review the recording of your hiking activity: but now your hike shows an elapsed time of 10 hrs!

My point being your activity (hike) had an elapsed time of 7 hrs and it is this activity that the self-contained activity file describes. Elapsed time between you initialising a recording on the unit and saving off / resetting etc is 10 hrs.. but this is trip computer stuff and not related to the activity itself (if you had sent your .fit file to a friend they are interested in your hike, not your operation of the 66i!).

Using a much simpler example more appropriate to the Garmin fitness line (indeed where the .fit format comes from):

1. Run a half marathon, hit stop on your Garmin as you cross the line, your elapsed time shows as "1hr30min" - you are delighted with this PB and go get a much needed recovery drink.
2. Ten minutes later, now your breathing has returned to normal and you can think straight, you save your activity.
3. On later review of this activity your elapsed time is still 1hr30min.. it doesn't jump to 1hr40min just because it took you some time to actually save it!
987
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: GPSMAP 66i Bug: elapsed act. time includes time from stopping recording to saving the recording

Unread post by 987 »

simonw500 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:07 am
Using a much simpler example more appropriate to the Garmin fitness line (indeed where the .fit format comes from):

1. Run a half marathon, hit stop on your Garmin as you cross the line, your elapsed time shows as "1hr30min" - you are delighted with this PB and go get a much needed recovery drink.
2. Ten minutes later, now your breathing has returned to normal and you can think straight, you save your activity.
3. On later review of this activity your elapsed time is still 1hr30min.. it doesn't jump to 1hr40min just because it took you some time to actually save it!
I stand corrected.
I made that half marathon test in compact format and saved after a few more seconds.
The saved track does show the elapsed time, not the time from start to stop. The saved activity shows both.
Now i have to agree the track saving has a bug.
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