Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Discussion related to the Garmin GPSMAP 66s/st GPSr
kampy
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Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by kampy »

GPSMAP 6x gained the FIT file export feature in the model 66, but with a lack of FIT file import. It upsets me very much. Because of this, there is no support for such an important thing as turn-by-turn directions (with Course points).
This is a very useful thing when planning a route, so as not to depend on maps, especially in remote areas.
I would very much like to see import fit file and turn-by-turn directions
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GPSrChive
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by GPSrChive »

Alltrails has an online converter that may be of assistance to you.

Also, why not just use GPX routes instead of FIT?
kampy
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by kampy »

gpsrchive wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:28 am Alltrails has an online converter that may be of assistance to you.

Also, why not just use GPX routes instead of FIT?
GPX not supported Course points
This type of navigation is similar to normal route navigation, but the information is not generated based on the map on the device,
but is contained directly in the fit or tcx file. Course points are created in many services such as plotaroute. In fact, on the track,
these are additional waypoints 50 meters (configurable) before the direction change. On the device (for example, on my watch forerunner 920xt)
they look like arrows with direction indication
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by GPSrChive »

kampy wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:43 pm GPX not supported Course points
Interesting.

We do not currently appear to have any Garmin products that support these 'Course Points' for testing.

Garmin outdoor recreation product users have been using GPX routes without issue for nearly two decades.
kampy wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:43 pm This type of navigation is similar to normal route navigation, but the information is not generated based on the map on the device,
but is contained directly in the fit or tcx file.
GPX routes are completely self contained within the GPX file also, and can be navigated both without regard for the map displayed (Direct) or by following routing information on the map displayed (Guided). Nothing changes in the GPX file when navigating a route.
kampy wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:43 pm Course points are created in many services such as plotaroute. In fact, on the track, these are additional waypoints 50 meters (configurable) before the direction change. On the device (for example, on my watch forerunner 920xt) they look like arrows with direction indication.
Forgive me for not understanding the value of such a directional arrow. Seems to me you would already know the direction you are travelling.

I suppose if I had a device that supported Course Points I might better understand their purpose or value. I need/want to better understand them.
kampy
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by kampy »

Need devices with support courses:
View List
https://developer.garmin.com/connect-iq ... ourse.html

D2™ Charlie
D2™ Delta
D2™ Delta PX
D2™ Delta S
Descent™ Mk1
Edge® 1000 / Explore
Edge® 1030
Edge® 1030 / Bontrager
Edge® 1030 Plus
Edge® 520
Edge® 520 Plus
Edge® 530
Edge® 820 / Explore
Edge® 830
Edge® Explore
Forerunner® 245
Forerunner® 245 Music
Forerunner® 645
Forerunner® 645 Music
Forerunner® 735xt
Forerunner® 745
Forerunner® 935
Forerunner® 945
fēnix® 5 / quatix® 5
fēnix® 5 Plus
fēnix® 5S
fēnix® 5S Plus
fēnix® 5X / tactix® Charlie
fēnix® 5X Plus
fēnix® 6 / 6 Solar / 6 Dual Power
fēnix® 6 Pro / 6 Sapphire / 6 Pro Solar / 6 Pro Dual Power / quatix® 6
fēnix® 6S / 6S Solar / 6S Dual Power
fēnix® 6S Pro / 6S Sapphire / 6S Pro Solar / 6S Pro Dual Power
fēnix® 6X Pro / 6X Sapphire / 6X Pro Solar / tactix® Delta Sapphire / Delta Solar / Delta Solar - Ballistics Edition / quatix® 6X / 6X Solar / 6X Dual Power
fēnix® Chronos
MARQ™ Adventurer
MARQ™ Athlete
MARQ™ Aviator
MARQ® Captain / MARQ® Captain: American Magic Edition
MARQ™ Commander
MARQ™ Driver
MARQ™ Expedition
MARQ™ Golfer
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GPSrChive
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by GPSrChive »

Yes, all Fitness products.

Personally, I wish Garmin never added FIT support to these Outdoor Recreation products in the first place because now we get prior fitness product users expecting them to behave just like their fitness devices, which they are not.

We have added Feature Request 32 to the GPSrChive > GPSMAP 66 > Common Issues page.
simonw500
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by simonw500 »

gpsrchive wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:51 pm Yes, all Fitness products.

Personally, I wish Garmin never added FIT support to these Outdoor Recreation products in the first place because now we get prior fitness product users expecting them to behave just like their fitness devices, which they are not.

We have added Feature Request 32 to the GPSrChive > GPSMAP 66 > Common Issues page.
Hi - while "owning up" to being someone more recently familiar with Garmin fitness products :) - I do see an immense value to this type of navigation, especially for hiking usage.

Full map-driven turn-by-turn nav is great if you haven't got a clue where you are going (on the trail diversions, selecting a POI and hitting go), yet overkill for a well-planned hike/run. On the other hand using a 'track' gives you a line with no intelligent nav. aids (other than an "off course warning" if configured).

The courses implementation used by the fitness line is a hybrid of both: the fidelity of an exact track (many thousands of points if required) along with some basic nav. prompts. Hiking/running with a fenix is a good example - I plan a course (Garmin Connect, Strava, whatever other planning website) or use someones else's track, stick in on the watch, start the run - then whenever I'm approaching a turn I get a little prompt in the form of a simple arrow (left, right etc) and at which point I can glance at the map (track line) if I need more information (usually don't as it's pretty obvious). The way I use it is basically to just ignore it if I know where I'm going, albeit good to have the positive confirmation, or have the map screen open if I'm on a section I'm unsure about so when I get the little vibration and arrow a quick glance lets me use the map (track line) to see the right way. Almost perfect - the icing on the cake would be the option to be able to disable/enable these notifications on-the-fly (eg. I'd turn them off if I knew where I was going, so it would operate just like a track, but with the option to turn them on if needed).

That's not to say the 'track' method on Outdoor Recreation units isn't of value - it certainly is - effectively an electronic map complete with your current position and your planned route marked up - great (and how I would use a handheld most of the time). I just see how the 'courses' method extends this functionality a little further with prompts at direction changes. This said, there's not a whole lot in it - if I need to make a turn decision I am unsure about I look at a map / GPSr.. all 'courses' do is pre-empt this - in the real world the only difference is for going straight on vs. a turn - ie. using a track I might feel the need to always check, whereas using a course I'd be more confident in continuing straight unless told otherwise. Maybe a better / shorter way of describing it is a pre-emptive "off course warning" :)

I underscore all this by saying I've yet to fully play with 'routes' (as in the GPX definition/usage of them) - at face value I'm not keen as I can't see how I'd have the absolutely certainty my route will be the exact same as I've planned with the 200 route point limits, but instead relying on the routing logic of the map.. which may well be different to wherever site I've used to plan it. Similar to a built in car sat nav: I'm confident if I put in a destination and some via points into several different vehicle sat nav systems they'll get me there, but depending on the system and map age they may well take me on different routes - of little concern when I'm driving, but for hiking/running etc where I've meticulously planned a specific trek then I want my nav unit pointing me along that route (and hence I use tracks!). Could just be my lack of knowledge with GPX routes, so I'll reserve judgement until I've played around with them more (and after all they've been around for a loooooong time so they must work, at least in some use cases!).

Just my view.. quite possibly wrong / in the minority!
Last edited by simonw500 on Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by GPSrChive »

simonw500 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:05 pm I underscore all this by saying I've yet to fully play with 'routes' (as in the GPX definition/usage of them) - at face value I'm not keen as I can't see how I'd have the absolutely certainty my route will be the exact same as I've planned with the 200 route point limits, but instead relying on the routing logic of the map.. which may well be different to wherever site I've used to plan it.
You have summed up routes nicely!

It is important to remember that there are basically two types of routes a Garmin handheld outdoor recreation device can use, 'Direct Routing' and 'Guided Routing'.

In a nutshell, Direct Routing is a route that flows directly from start to finish, using all specified points between. This type of route will appear as a 'jagged' series of straight lines (routing segments) connecting the dots (routing points) in sequence, from start to finish. 'Guided Routing' is a precise path that follows all streets, roads, trails etc. from start to finish, an exact 'trace' of the route created.

The beauty of a 'Direct Route' is that it can be recalculated on the GPSr as needed to match the 'routing preferences' and 'enabled maps' on the device, all configured in the field by the user. This offers great flexibility for finding different ways to get from point 'A' to 'B' to 'C' to 'D' (etc.) using different mapping data and routing preferences as desired. For example, you have planned a vacation in a foreign location, creating routes from your hotel to multiple tourist destinations, only to discover that a road you wanted to use is temporarily closed (perhaps due to a rock slide or something). The direct route can be edited and/or recalculated on the device to compensate for this, where as a 'Guided Route' can not.

A 'Guided Route' also must be created using the same version maps on the device where it was created as will be on the GPSr. If two different maps are used and differences in routing options exists, the route likely will fail on the device, and can not be edited or recalculated on the GPSr. 'Guided Routes' are followed precisely on the GPSr as they were created, with no deviation possible.

Both types have their pros and cons, and many users will export their routes twice, once for each type, to their GPSr.

Some users will also export the 'Guided Route' as a 'Track' and send that to their GPSr as well, which allows them to use the 'Direct Route' on the GPSr while monitoring for detours from the original 'Guided Route'.

More information is available at GPSrChive > How To... > Routes and on the Setup > Routing pages within the GPSrChive wikis.
simonw500
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by simonw500 »

Great further explanation, thanks.
kampy
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Re: Feature Request. Import routes from fit files

Unread post by kampy »

Your explanation is obvious, but it does not cover two of my frequent cases of using the navigator.
1. You build a route at home using detailed raster maps. There are no good vector maps of this area. This is a fairly common situation for Russia, for remote areas, Soviet military maps (General Staff) are still the best source in this case.In this case, the navigation built into the device will not help you, movement along the track is used, but we do not get prompts. If there was support for fit, then we would receive hints in the places that we ourselves defined.
2. Near sports events (brevet, gravel races, etc.) It is not the optimal route that is important for you, but the exact track set by the organizers, and here, too, hints on the track would be very useful
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