inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Discussion related to the Garmin GPSMAP 66s/st GPSr
987
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by 987 »

Hi.

GPSmap 66st with software 4.10, GPS 2.70.

I have multiple maps loaded on the device that i am testing.
Two of the maps are openstreetmaps on a SD card.
There are also basemap and topoactive maps on the device.
All maps are disabled from the map setup, apart from what is described below.

In some cases, but for some reason not all;
If i have two maps, in which some tiles overlap, say one for Sweden and one for Norway, some tiles are shared in the maps because they overlap the border areas.

If i disable all maps except for one from SETUP -> MAP -> Configure maps. Say i enabled Sweden and disable Norway.
Then the areas which are shared in between the maps (border region) will show as blank because the Norway map also have these tiles, but those are disabled.
It seems it does not always happen in both directions. So if i instead enable Norway and disable Sweden, the border regions will show.

It seems there is some priority of the maps, but it is very annoying that turning off some maps, may in fact make the remaining map less usable.
It seems impossible to decide which map should be drawn at the top (and always show if present in that area).

Do you think it is a map generating problem, or a software problem in the GPS?
Have anyone else observed this?
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GPSrChive
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Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by GPSrChive »

Each mapset has a unique identification number, and when the GPSr boots it indexes each map tile for a given mapset to that mapsets ID number.

When you enable or disable a particular mapset, the GPSr is showing or hiding map tiles indexed for that mapset ID.

In the case of OpenStreet Maps, for example, many have the same mapset ID, so, in this case, shared or duplicate map tiles can be affected when other mapsets with same ID are shown/hidden.
987
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by 987 »

That's interesting indeed. Is there any way to update the ID in a .img file?
either manually, or with help of a program that will change it correctly without destroying the file?
What are good identifiers? a number such as 1,2,3? some long random hash-code?
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GPSrChive
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Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by GPSrChive »

Not quite that simple.

Map ID is determined at time of map compiling by map author, and while some software exist that allow you to change map ID, many features and functions of map can be damaged by doing so.

If you want to study how Garmin maps are created and compiled, be prepared for many long sleepless weeks and have plenty of coffee on hand!
987
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by 987 »

Hi.
I must return to this topic and suggest a new feature.

In my previous post i have described when it sometimes happens that inactive maps blank out active ones.
The same would occur if i load two maps of the same area, say one openstreetmap with standard style, and one with new style; or perhaps one for regular car routing and one specific for bicycle trails.

The future i suggest is the following:
When disabling maps from the map configuration menu, instead of having disabled maps to potentially blank our areas where this map is inactive, the inactive maps should not be considered at all for display (just like if they did not exist on the device or microSD card).
This ideally should mean that only those maps that are enabled will show, but they will show completely.
In case there are more than one active maps in an area, the same logic as today may apply in selecting which to show.

I understand and guess that considering a disabled map as not present may require a re-load of the map index or indices.
But i think this should be possible without too much of chance in the software.
asprin624
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:34 am
Location: Belgium

Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by asprin624 »

@987,

Why not try these topo maps??

Norwegen and Schweden are 2 seperate maps

http://garmin.opentopomap.org/#download

_____________________________________________

The whole area below on one map

Dänemark (DNK), Norwegen (NOR), Schweden (SWE), Finnland (FIN) [Skandinavische Staaten] Russische Exklave Kaliningrad, Litauen (LTU), Lettland (LVA), Estland (EST) [Baltische Staaten]

http://www.freizeitkarte-osm.de/garmin/de/regionen.html
______________________________________________
Or Just rename the ending .img to .xxx on one of the maps then it is not seen.
Then when you need it again just rename in back to .img

Or just use the topoactive maps.

One or the other

I keep a set of SD cards with only one country on each SD card.

I remove Benelux and replace it with Germany Topo when I need to be in Germany.

The chances you would be zig zaging back and forth across the boarders while hiking???

Then if that is the case just use your Topactive maps or a topo map that covers the whole area you need so there is no need to turn off any maps.

If Topactive maps are not to your satisfaction then remove them to your PC for save keeping.

I did not get the Topactive maps for my 66s been using Free topo maps since 2007 on all my GPS units.

Hope this can help you.
The chances Garmin would redo the firmware I would hold my breath on that one.
987
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by 987 »

Hi.
These options are used by me, especially the openstreetmap generator which you mention.
But even with separate country maps, the issue may occur.

In practical terms, the issue is not exceptionally big, because if all maps in one area are enabled, at least one will show up.
It is much more something of a convenience.

I do drive and hike over borders in europe. Some trips over many countries at one time.
Even if i create a large map, after a few countries it will max out on the ~3GB size. A spare SD cards with maps can be used, or renaming the map files. (i have and still use both in some cases).
But these options are very impractical, because most borders do not require a stop (while driving), so i cannot easily just stop and change SD card (which is under the batteries) nor connect a computer to rename the map files on the SD card or unit. Nor is there a file manager on the device which would allow renaming if files. It's very similar when hiking, but perhaps a bit easier to change a SD card.

Therefore i was sadly surprised that the unit which is capable of multiple maps, does not allow a map to be disabled without the risk of blanking some other map which is active. Again is much of a convenience thing and with my feature request my aim is to make the design better. So that technology makes life easier, not harder. :-)
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GPSrChive
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Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by GPSrChive »

987 wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:47 pm Therefore i was sadly surprised that the unit which is capable of multiple maps, does not allow a map to be disabled without the risk of blanking some other map which is active.
The unit performs this function just fine. The issue here are the poorly created free maps you are using. If you were using better quality or Garmin maps, this would never be an issue.

Use better quality maps, have a better quality experience.

Sometimes, you get exactly what you pay for 8^)
asprin624
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:34 am
Location: Belgium

Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by asprin624 »

@gpsrchive,

Here is an example of Garmin Topo maps:

Unless you have very deep pockets and cost is not an issue you can get these maps from Garmin.
But they all overlap one another.

TOPO Norway Premium R1 Sorvest 169,99€
TOPO Norway Premium R2 Soros 169,99€
Topo Norway PREMIUM R3 Vest 169,99€
TOPO Norway Premium R4 Sentral 169,99€
TOPO Norway Premium R5 Nordvest 169,99€
Topo Norway PREMIUM R6 Trondelag 169,99€
TOPO Norway Premium R7 Nordland Sor 169,99€
TOPO Norway Premium R8 Nordland North 169,99€
Topo Norway PREMIUM R9 Troms 169,99€
Topo Norway PREMIUM R10 Finnmark 169,99€

TOPO Sweden v6 PRO 179,99€

Staying with open free Topo maps have never let me down and they are updated monthly.
For most user's they fit the bill when out hiking.
Can not say that about Garmin Topo maps.
The Topoactive maps are not the best from what I see that come with the 66ST.
One of my friend who has the 66ST took the Topoactive maps off. For the extra 50 euros in cost it was not worth it.
He went back to Free Topo maps and has not looked back.
To each his own as to maps but Garmin Topo maps cost way to much for what you get and are not updated often and then that is more cost to a user if he or she wants to update to the next version of Topo maps that comes out.
987
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: inactive maps overlay and blank out active maps

Unread post by 987 »

:lol:
this topic accidentally became political. yes a BMW at 50 000 € might very well be better than a new Dacia at 10 000 €, but someone else might argue that you get a lot of fuel for the 40 000 € difference, etc. etc...
One can also argue that: sure, if you would have bought a better car you would be able to drive these roads.
Non the less, engineers can make the roads better, to suite various vehicles.

The same with GPS-units.
The free maps may not be as good the ones paid for, but if the engineers can make the unit accept various maps, it would make people think "wow what a good unit this GARMIN is, i can use both the free maps as well as the better which i pay for".

As mentioned, to get a complete set of good maps for europe, will cost anything from 50€. Maybe as much as 2 000 € or more depending on the source.
We know also that garmin topo active map, which are on loaded on the 66st model are among the better priced maps (based on openstreetmap), has disabled routing for automotive. This means that the usability of that map lowers greatly.
This leads to people (like me) installing the very same maps but from a different source, to make sure that the routing is possible, and all the issues begin ;-)

Long story short, i still think it should not be a very big change making sure that disabled maps, are disabled and not overlaying any active map.
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