Satellite signal reduced when held horizontally [Bug 7]

[kot7OpHyd]

I did not notice an existing thread for Bug 7 (Satellite page signal strength indicators are all reduced substantially while the device is held horizontally with the display facing the sky), but I remember some old basic GPS navigation videos by Lyle Brotherton, and he explains there that the type of antenna on the GPSMAP 64, 65, etc. is of "Quadrifilar helix" type which works best vertical (pointing to the sky up) to a 45 degree inclination from vertical. Many handheld GPS receivers' antennae work well at a 45 degree inclination from vertical, so that's a good inclination to hold most GPS receivers.

*** edited to conform with forum posting guidelines ***

Video:

This playlist is a good introduction for new handheld GPS receiver users.

[GPSrChive]

We do not observe the same behavior from our GPSMAP 66s/st/sr/i or GPSMAP 67/67i or Montana 700/750i devices, and they all use a similar antenna design.

Our GPSMAP 65/65s both literally fall flat on their faces when held horizontally, losing more than 50% of the total satellite signals available when held vertically.

[RickN55]

My take on the signal loss when held horizontally the 67 it makes no difference to the signal bars, can even hold that upside down and it doesn't lose signal.

My 65s loses some signal strength on the bars when held horizontally but I wouldn't say it's 50% loss but it's noticeable on the bars.

The 65s absolutely creams the 67 when turning them both on at the same time and finding 6 feet accuracy way faster than the 67 does. The 65 is near instant both in the house and outside with a clear view of the sky. The 67 is still slower outside with a clear view of the sky but not as slow as it is indoors at finding 6 feet. The 65s does straight away. Just shows the 65s is older tech but the receiver is better in some aspects than the later models..

[GPSrChive]

To be fair, the 67 has a lot more overhead to deal with when booting, and the 67 battery life is nearly 12x longer than the 65 (180 hours vs 16 hours) and more than 50x longer when using Expedition mode (840 hours vs 16 hours).

Put into perspective, you would have to carry 24 AA batteries with you to get the same run time from the 65 as you can from a single charge on the 67.

[RickN55]

To be fair, the 67 has a lot more overhead to deal with when booting, and the 67 battery life is nearly 12x longer than the 65 (180 hours vs 16 hours) and more than 50x longer when using Expedition mode (840 hours vs 16 hours).

Put into perspective, you would have to carry 24 AA batteries with you to get the same run time from the 65 as you can from a single charge on the 67.

Yes, I get what you're saying but for a newer top of the range flagship model (67) you'd expect it to be quicker regardless. It's like anything else the newer model is always meant to be better and faster.

It's like having an iPhone 14 then buying the new iPhone 15 and it being slower than the older model. It just doesn't happen with everything else, It should be an improvement each model, that is one area (listed above) where I think Garmin were sloppy and could have made the 67 better!

[kot7OpHyd]

Just shows the 65s is older tech but the receiver is better in some aspects than the later models..

Garmin's blurb for the GPSMAP 65s series on its "Handhelds" page products list is still set to:

You travel in the most challenging locations, and you want our most accurate GPS handheld ever. These are exactly what you're looking for.

This may have been old text that has never been updated, but they're still showing this description on the page with the newer GPSMAP 67 series. I have no experience with the GPSMAP 67.. my personal environment means I prefer the GPSMAP 65s and 64s, and even the 18x LVC for other things. There are multiple differing units by Garmin to cater to different users' needs. In my experience using a new GPSMAP 65s with firmware version 4.60 in a populous city environment, once it initially locks on to that 1.8m accuracy outdoors, I have never noticed accuracy change, or location wander more than a 4m radius on the map which is pretty decent for street navigation. Relatively, my current gen smartphones struggle in the same environment where GPS accuracy fluctuates between 6-50m outdoors and the location wanders widely as well. This could be due to buildings, trees, etc.

I haven't run out of AA battery within a single day. I use regular Eneloops, have backlight timeout set to 30s, and display turn off at that timeout, and don't use Bluetooth or ANT. If one has the display on all the time, it would drain the battery sooner.

[kot7OpHyd]

In my experience using a new GPSMAP 65s with firmware version 4.60 in a populous city environment, once it initially locks on to that 1.8m accuracy outdoors, I have never noticed accuracy change, or location wander more than a 4m radius on the map which is pretty decent for street navigation.

I forgot to mention: I am not able to use any official Garmin applications with the computers I have, so this GPSMAP 65s has never had CPE or EPO files transferred to it. All that it has is what it got from the skies. It reaches its maximal 1.8m accuracy after power-on within a minute (outdoors).

[RickN55]

In my experience using a new GPSMAP 65s with firmware version 4.60 in a populous city environment, once it initially locks on to that 1.8m accuracy outdoors, I have never noticed accuracy change, or location wander more than a 4m radius on the map which is pretty decent for street navigation.

I forgot to mention: I am not able to use any official Garmin applications with the computers I have, so this GPSMAP 65s has never had CPE or EPO files transferred to it. All that it has is what it got from the skies. It reaches its maximal 1.8m accuracy after power-on within a minute (outdoors).

I find the 65 can be an absolute pain for not finding all sats when it's not been used for a few days. The CPE expires really fast which when you're out on holiday with no laptop to connect to express to sync the sat data or connect to explore which takes a lifetime.

[RickN55]

Just shows the 65s is older tech but the receiver is better in some aspects than the later models..

Garmin's blurb for the GPSMAP 65s series on its "Handhelds" page products list is still set to:

You travel in the most challenging locations, and you want our most accurate GPS handheld ever. These are exactly what you're looking for.

This may have been old text that has never been updated, but they're still showing this description on the page with the newer GPSMAP 67 series. I have no experience with the GPSMAP 67.. my personal environment means I prefer the GPSMAP 65s and 64s, and even the 18x LVC for other things. There are multiple differing units by Garmin to cater to different users' needs. In my experience using a new GPSMAP 65s with firmware version 4.60 in a populous city environment, once it initially locks on to that 1.8m accuracy outdoors, I have never noticed accuracy change, or location wander more than a 4m radius on the map which is pretty decent for street navigation. Relatively, my current gen smartphones struggle in the same environment where GPS accuracy fluctuates between 6-50m outdoors and the location wanders widely as well. This could be due to buildings, trees, etc.

I haven't run out of AA battery within a single day. I use regular Eneloops, have backlight timeout set to 30s, and display turn off at that timeout, and don't use Bluetooth or ANT. If one has the display on all the time, it would drain the battery sooner.

The 67 is better in every way than the 65s, just the 65 is much quicker at getting down to 6 feet accuracy when turned on, it's literally instant where as the 67 takes a good 30 seconds. It;s not just my device as this is the 2nd 67 I've had as I sent the first one back because the finish started to wear off the toggle button and that was the same. Though one weakness of the 67 is the toggle button, the finish is started to go again on the edge of the toggle button mainly the down part of the button. Never had this issue with my old Garmin Devices like my 60CSx which is as good as 20 years old, been used and dropped loads but the buttons are all like new on it.

[kot7OpHyd]

Nod, from various videos online of the GPSMAP 67, I like its speed of UI updates, the higher resolution screen, and power efficiency.

The power efficiency of the eTrex SE and Foretrex 801 devices is also encouraging. Forked from the eTrex SE, in the next generation I would like to see such a monochrome device from Garmin with support for OSM img maps (POIs, roads, topo, basic features), improved limits for GPX files, multi-band support, and similar battery life. However, from reading reviews and comments, this is not what most users expect.. they want touch screens, fast mobile-phone-like UI, syncing with phones, etc. etc. Garmin devices are often compared to as old technology, as some users don't realise that these are built to not fail/break in demanding environments. I hope Garmin continues to cater to everyone's different choices.